One of the best intentioned but most questionable expectations
my Father ever had of me was:
It was never OK to be violent.
He was saying independent of what someone did to me,
it was NEVER ok for me to respond proportionately.
Consequently, my childhood was a rendition of
Kenny Roger’s, “Coward of the County.”
Not awesome.
Parents, people – there is a time to be violent.
In all of THE MOVEMENT educational courses
we spend an incredible amount of time parsing definitions
and redefining things in a way
to where terms are correct
but also connected to other terms.
In that spirit,
Let me share with you my Target Focus Training inspired definitions of violence.
Social Violence
The kind that Adam and I engaged where we agree to not fuck up each other too bad when we grapple.
Antisocial Violence
This is the kind where one guy wants to kick the other guys ass…but not kill him.
Asocial Violence
violence for the sake of torture or murder
When I was talking to Adam about how many reps he had done of wrestling, defensive tactics and other sport and combat practices, he said, “Too many reps to stop now.”
He demonstrated a perfect understanding of what we teach in the BioMech I certification:
If you do something enough, you’ll eventually HAVE to do it…at least for a while.
Violence is our inheritance. One of the points Quirk makes in his excellent book, IT’S NOT YOU, IT’S BIOLOGY is that we are the descendants of murderers and rapists. It’s true. Humans have a long history of perpetrating violence on each other.
We have had too many reps to stop it…for a while. But here are some ideas on how to do less of it.
Practice it.
Practice violence.
Anything my dogs did, I associated a command.
That way, I knew I had some leverage.
And considering dogs have a long history of violence,
having leverage over those little killing machines
is not only a possibility…
but a responsibility.
I will be writing about dogs some time soon, as well.
Back to you.
You have violent tendencies.
Period.
Not in every context…
but you are wired to be violent in some contexts.
Want leverage over it?
Train it.
Train it generally.
Train it specifically.
Training Violence Generally
If you want to train violence generally,
engage in contact sports.
The best thing my dad ever did was enroll me in martial arts.
Martial Arts include:
boxing
wrestling
brazilian jiu-jitsu
asian martial arts
and of course -
cage fighting AKA mixed martial arts.
Adam seems to believe that the re-emergence of MA in the form of MMA will prime young men and women to defend themselves, their families and their countries if and when they are called upon to serve – either formally or informally. I’m inclined to agree.
Training Violence Specifically
“Violence is rarely the answer but when it is the answer, it is the only answer.”
–Tim Larkin
While not everyone should train violence generally,
I believe it is everyone’s personal responsibility
to train violence specifically
…at least the minimal effective amount.
If you do not,
I have a question for you:
Are you giving up your right to life?
I believe so.
When you choose the behavior,
you choose the consequences
both intended and unintended.
So, I believe:
If you do not train for violence…
then you are choosing to be its victim.
Loyal readers…
there is a time to be violent…
and at that time,
if you’re the good guy,
I want you to win.
If necessary, I expect you to kill.
In the survival game,
I pick you to live.
Do you pick you to live?
Note: Be sure to check out Frankie at www.Areyouthemovement.com
P.S. Did you get your copy of my new Ebook? It’s right on the side of the page, you will love it
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I agree with this article. I’m inclined to “Walk softly and carry a big stick” myself. This means that I keep to my own, be a good man, and be peacefull when I can. This also means for me that when someone forces my hand I turn the switch to a merciless mean motherfucker and protect myself and my family without hesitation. I have trained some MMA and Grappling as well as trained for 4 months with the Alaska State Troopers in Defensive Tactics and self defense. Make no mistake THERE IS A TIME FOR EXTREME VIOLENCE as stated in this article. We were taught a saying….”Its better to be judged by 6 than carried by 12″. This applies to not only Police activities but in the real world. If you walk around thinking that you dont have to be prepared just because you live in a nice neighborhood or in a quiet state, then you ARE risking your “Right to life”. Extreme violence happens everywhere and it rarely happens when you expect it to, thats why its so effective, it hits those people NOT prepared and has the most devastating effect.
As far as I can observe, there is no place in America which has not seen extreme violence. For my international readers they all bring stories of things which happen in their cities.
Will Williams was here this weekend, we were discussing violence in cities. He told me in Philly there was a single weekend were 13 people were murdered in separate incidents. Not just someone shooting someone either- horrific violence such as two teenagers raping, murdering, and then burning the house down of an elderly woman.
Where will the line be drawn? It must be drawn by every single person individually before it will happen collectively. You must be the first one to say “not in my life”
Jeremy I agree with your mind set. If only we could get more people to accept this starting point.
I agree,
There have to be enough people doing it individually before it will spread to the collective.
Jeremy,
Enjoyed reading your reply.
I’ve heard,
“I’d rather by taken away by two men in blue than 6 men in black.”
I believe the expression is ” I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6″.Where the 12 refers to a jury in a courtroom and the 6 refers to pallbearers at a funeral.
I guess I should add that THIS is half the reason I train each day and strive to get stronger, get better, get harder. I train for what I hope never happens to me…A fight for my life or my family’s. When and If this fight ever comes to my doorstep I am meerly increasing my chances of WINNING by preparing for it by training and practicing. I encourage everyone to do the same. Thank you for bringing light to this topic. I had a “peace and love” family member that asked me(when I was home on leave from the Air Force ironically) if I was “really prepared to take someones life when I was being deployed to Saudi Arabia”. My reply was “Yes I am, for 2 reasons….1. If they are going to kill me I will kill them first. 2. I signed the dotted line and its my job, my job to PROTECT the very feedom that you enjoy”. She said she felt bad for me……………….
Jeremy,
I believe the threat of violence can deter violence.
Thank you for being that threat.
I believe nothing to be a matter of character
and everything to be a matter of conditioning/training.
I want everyone to train sufficiently
so that self preservation is not a choice.
@ Jeremy – how sad that your “family member” that felt bad for you has the rose colored glasses on. For that matter, there are WAY too many ostriches with their collective heads stuck in the sand – with no clue how depraved people can get.
– former member of the U.S.A.F. (sky cop still used these days?) 321st combat support group – aircraft wing
have heard both the 6 -12 and the 2-6 sayings….. good points when your life is literally on the line.
The reason you sleep easy in your bed at night is because rough men stand ready to do violence on your behalf.
George Orwell [I think]
These days it’s rough women too.
Thank you frankie for another thoughtful and thought provoking piece.
I know two men who were arrested multiple times for fighting. When the started practicing jiu jitsu, they changed. They were calmer.
My friends and I would beat the crap out of each other in the basements of our homes. We never did permanent damage, never got angry with each other and we enjoyed it.
I told you before that my son at fourteen months has begun to use violence to get what he wants. How does a 26 lb creature get leverage over a 160lb creature? He goes for my eyes and pulls my hair. I didn’t teach him that.
I believe that it’s innate. Humans (at least the males) have the desire to practice violence. We practice it because we may need it. I see it in other species as well. Dogs never stop practicing. Lion cubs and baby monkeys beat the crap out of each other.
Another silly idea that needs to go. Human’s respond to a threat with a fight or flight response.
Bullshit.
Face with a threat we will fight, run, posture or submit. People will actually submit. They submit because they can’t envision a way to win. They have no associative problem or solution stored in their brains.
Many people die in fires because they freeze and do nothing. Fire drills are necessary to keep that from happening.
After the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 Rick Rescorla, Vice President of Security for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, was convinced it would happen again. He created evacuation plans and ran drills with all of his 2,700 employees who where spread out over 40 floors. All but six walked out of that building on September 11, 2001. He died with the other six because he went back in to help.
I am astonished whenever I ask a police officer how much time they spend shooting. The answer is usually “I go to the range every six months”.
So that a “human’s are evil” thread doesn’t pop up, we’re not the only murdering, raping and torturing species on the planet.
Gary raises many great points. We all share some common favorite authors.
Flight, Fight, Posture, Submit is the accurate picture of conflict. The problems arise when one fights while another only postures, and when one submits while the other continues to fight.
A human must be prepared to take any of these 4 paths during any conflict.
Frankie and I have discussed this many times- the fastest way to reduce violent behavior maybe to give people healthy degrees of it. It is unreasonable to expect people to live submerged in an unnatural population density full of fears and hostile emotion and not ever see them act out.
Most primates rape and murder, so its all perfectly human to do it. Rather than tell people to change, I say we better equip the rest of the monkeys to fight back.
No religion.
I like your additions of submission and posture.
Re: Rescorla,
I think this supports the conditioning not character argument.
…and evil is the wrong question.
Hi everyone.
Nice post Adam. I grew up in South America while my Father worked as a US Embassy attache. By the time I was 10 (mid 80′s)- the sites of bombed guerrilla houses, hung people from bridges, night time killing squads of left and right wing para-military forces wrestling for control of the country and stacked cadavers were common events to witness.
One day my Father said to me that he was sending my Mom and I back to the States and he would walk back to safety if the country fell. I decided that day to join the Marine Corps as soon as I could and help him get back if he needed me. I wanted training to help me help my Dad escape violence.
Of course by the time I joined the Corps my dad was already Stateside, but it was that drive to fill the need to be ready that I realized drove me to the Marines. I used to see them at the Embassy every day and it impressed me.
In my opinion, Target Focus training through Tim’s method fills a void for the everyday person that may find itself in sticky spot with no alternative except for a fight.
It was better training than any hand to hand combat instruction I received in the Marine Corps(sad isn’t it?).
Enrique
I think you will appreciate the new direction of information we will be posting here. Thanks for dropping in
Enrique,
Thanks for the comment and thank you, as well
for being our threat of violence.
Well put, Frankie. If someone does physical harm on us, we should have the goddamn right to defend ourselves. I think I know where you’re coming from, for I was told as a child by my mom I should never use violence to defend myself, too. I suffered from domestical abuse until I grew up up to my dad’s height and beyond.
Decades ago, too many people here thought no war would take place in my country. And then what happend? Russia attacked. I spent six months in Guard Jaeger Regiment, because I want to fight back when needed. Masses still think nothing will happen, but they’re very wrong. Europe is now a boiling cauldron that won’t hold up forever…
Thank you for this post. Waiting to see more about this kind of information.
Great Posts.
I have been involved with TMA for + 40 years and I love it. But, I also realized that most of the techniques were not appropriate for the average person to use in any kind of self defense situation. That is why I never taught my self defense classes traditional stuff.
Most of the women in the class had already been attacked or raped and they needed something that worked now, based upon their height, weight, flexibility, strength levels, etc. Almost all of them had to learn how to actually hit someone. Not just a bag or hand glove, but an actual person.
I used to have some of the advanced students in my TKD classes come in and make the self defense students punch them in the abs. It took many tries before they were actually hitting with some force.
The one thing I will say about TMA is that the sparring is good for working on movement and timing and getting used to people throwing punches and kicks at you. And most people haven’t grown up with a brother to practice on as they were growing up. My Dad would have pounded the crap out of me if I had tried fighting with my younger sisters:-)
Looking forward to more of your articles on this.
Mike, Thanks for your thoughts
Thanks for the comment.
Have you checked out Adam’s most recent article on violence?
Frankie,
Thanks to Tim Larkin at TFT, I found your website. He mentioned that you were in a Dallas class, possibly the same one I attended in 2007? I would like to emphasize your mindset that horrible life-ending tragedies happen in the nicest of neighborhoods. My girlfriend was murdered in a upscale hotel in San Diego in 2007.
If you want to learn how to handle violence without a gun, Tim Larkin is your man. If you want to learn how to use a gun effectively, then get in touch with Ignatius Piazza at http://www.frontsight.com.
I am not affiliated with either organization, other than being a client.
Thank you for creating awareness,
Mark
Mark, thanks for dropping in.
I’m sorry to hear about your girl friend. hopefully people will learn the lesson from tragic incidents such as this that anything can happen anywhere.
Mark,
Like Adam I am so sorry to hear about your girlfriend.
I do my best to encourage every female I encounter to educate and train themselves for violence.
Thanks for the FrontSight recommendation.
Excellent points all, Jeremy I believe you mean judged by 12( number in a jury) then Carried by 6 ( pall bearers). I grew up in the same you have to turn the other cheek violence is never the answer type household. To this day my parents believe that is the case. Me, I grew out of it in High school where I found violence meet by superior violence causes peace. I enjoy the peace to this day and stay prepared to inflict superior violence should the need arise, although never go around looking for a fight, I am always prepared.
To help yourself stay prepared http://www.frontsight.com
John,
Thank you for your comments.
I particularly enjoyed,
“Violence met by superior violence causes peace.”
We have to meet people where they are at…
including violent people.
MIKE,
I’ve been in the martial arts, but have found that to take down a bully who is about to violate you, dirty street fighting is more effective. One hit and the guy goes down and doesn’t get back up. In finding Tim Larkins philosophy, I have at last been validated that I was right all along. Fortunately, my encounters were mostly social situations and at times I was a bit concerned that I might have hurt the other guy too much. I didn’t want to end up with legal proplems in the use of excessive force. But I knew that should it come to a real, asocial situation, I would apply full force with the unreserved intention to put the opponent into the ER or the morgue.
In fact, I’m proud to say that with the attitude of “don’t tempt me,” I’ve avoided physical confrontations for 40 years, even though at one time I had to come to the defense of another and at another time had to make a citizens arrest. I believe it’s the attitude in the back of your head, based on knowledge that you know from experience that works, that keeps would be attackers at bay. I’ve avoided a lot of social situations that way, and possibly some asocial situations too. When you know in your gut you can take that guy down where he won’t get back up, and you’re aching to do it, for some strange reason, they won’t come at you and make the first move. I believe antisocial and asocial guys have a sixths sense that way, that somehow you don’t fit the victim profile, and that they might have come across an actual predator. At that, you don’t have to say anything, no matter what he spews out at you, just wait for the moment to get in your first hit.
Peter
Peter,
I feel you.
It is interesting balancing the willingness to be justifiably violent
with the curiosity mindset of
“don’t tempt me.”
Peter, Yours is the philosophy that I live with, but have never quite been able to address it or put into words. Not having taken Tim’s courses, I cannot truly access what he is getting across – other than don’t be a victim, but I do agree with his attitude – its just what level of physical control (philosophy) do you apply.
My quandary is I have no problem with turning the other cheek – some guys want to show off, drink too much, or are just plain stupid – they have the potential to inflict pain, but are not necessarily a life threat (though I am aware that that situation can change quickly), so I don’t mind being a “Coward of the County”. But when they are a threat, different story, and the predator in me does come out. Your last paragraph is eloquently worded, so if you don’t mind, I plan to copy those words. Thank You.
I grew up the son of an Air Force officer who let mama raise me and my sister. She told me that “It takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight.” What a crock of crap! What she meant by that was that I wasn’t to fight no matter what. As a result, I got beaten up almost every day from the 6th grade on until the 10th grade. Sometimes by as many as 6 boys at a time. Frankly, I was raised a sissy, therefore a target. Between my 10th and 12th grades, I grew over a foot in height to 6’4″ and the boys decided to leave me alone. At the height of the VietNam war, I enlisted. That’s where I learned that the more violent the response to violence, the better your chance of survival. I also learned that your “countenance” or the way others perceive you physically also has a lot to do with your survival. Now as 6’4″, 210 lbs few people would look at me as a victim, even at 62 years old. I have walked, out of necessity, the streets of Atlanta near 5 points without fear or being bothered. Maybe that’s because of my “countenance” or what ever its called. I utilize my situational awareness and respond accordingly. I learned that you never leave an enemy at your back that is capable of retaliation. Now, I’ve made sure that my son didn’t have to endure what I did. He’s now a Navy combat corpsman supporting SOCOM. I determined that neither I nor my children will ever become victims.
Amen, Rick.
Thanks for the comments.
and thank you for your service
and for the service of your son.
I need to add to my previous comment. I was listening to a radio program on which a clinical psychologist was talking about violent offenders. He said that approximately one out of 25 people are born without a concience. That the difference between a psychopath and someone who is a sociopath, is that the psychopath doesn’t know right from wrong but the sociopath does and doesn’t care. When I think of all the people I pass on the roads going to or coming from anywhere or the folks I pass in the stores and that 1 out of 25 have no concience, then my situational awareness goes to a higher level.
If that’s true, Rick.
That’s scary, bro.
1/25?
Phew.
I too am disgusted with all the violence going on these days!! I am a disabled Vietnam Vet, with my left leg gone. I get around in a power wheelchair, but some times i feel like an easy target in my own neighborhood. So, i figured out a way to mount to my chair, my 9MM loaded with 16 of my ‘closest friends,’ JHP of course and an expandable baton, just in case!! All of that said, what more can i do to make myself, and my wife feel safe in our home and Hood ??? As i learned many years ago slugging it out in the Mekong Delta, and the rice pads, 1SHOT, 1 KILL. It served me well then, and i have no doubt, it would serve me well NOW !! Don, USN EO3 (Seabees) Can Do
Don,
Thank you for your service.
I am not an expert on violence,
just another voice.
Good luck making your environment more safe.
Don,
Do what you are doing now, gathering information. Add in practical application, take some advanced courses from Front Sight or other schools, shoot IDPA, USPSA or another discipline.
Put Tim’s philosophy’s in action, can you defend yourself with 1 hand while manipulating you chair with the other., switch hands.
As far as your home, make sure it is secure. High quality locks, set up your house to not be inviting to thieves, make the interior a maze (within reason) that you can navigate in total darkness yet an intruder may knock over that flower arrangement with marbles in the vase. I don’t think your chair will care about marbles but maybe his feet might have a little difficulty.
Keep your 9mm either on you or readilly accessible at ALL TIMES, also a shotgun is a very powerful tool if you have to make a stand. None the above will help unless you practice, so dry fire as often as you can (daily), go to the range whenever you can.
Your mind is the weapon, all else are just the tools but you must be able to use the tools effectively or the are just jewelry. Guns are tools, knives, batons, cars, but so are elbows, knee(s), fingers, fist, teeth, forehead and yes a wheelchair can be a tool as well.
Thank you for your service, you have no idea how many Americans really appreciate your dedication and sacrifice.
Dave C
I think the saying is ” It’s better to be Tried by 12, than carried by 6″. But I knew what you mean. 12 is the usual number of a jury (you’re still alive) and it usually takes 6 to carry a coffin meaning you’re DEAD. Alive i s better than dead.
Better UP than DOWN
You guys danced all around the most important point, without ever getting to it. Here it is: Violence begets violence. Violence breeds violence. That’s just a general truism, but not an absolute truth. Yes, there will always be those times when violence is necessary. But, all the training we do is designed not only to enable us to win fights we can’t avoid, but to also avoid fights that we otherwise couldn’t avoid. If your training makes you get in more fights, you’re doing it wrong. I had more “trouble” before I started training, and today, I can “think it through”, and avoid physical violence, where before I might actually “get into it” with some guy. Most people are really only “violence-capable” in the most extreme situations. While our training may make us more capable of more violence, it also makes it less likely that we will need to be violent in the first place. Today, I would rather avoid a fight even if I could win, than win a fight that I could have avoided altogether. When our training, and the resulting self-confidence, is enough to convince the other guy to back down, without actual physical violence, isn’t that the goal? Once, even before I started training, a guy attacked me with a knife, to literally stab me in the back, and kill me. He wouldn’t stop fighting, even after I got the knife away from him. He ended up with a badly broken arm, and a face that looked like road-kill. I was unhurt. Today, I wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place! I would just call the cops BEFORE he picked up the knife!…keep training!…
It’s funny. I was never, as a child, violent in my day to day behavior. I did, however, have a mother who told me to go fight my own battles when I would run to her and cry about being bullied. I had to make up my mind ahead of time that there would be no next time.
It was sink or swim, so when I was pushed too hard (and my very safety became an issue), I had to step up. Now, I have never been a good boxer, and would have (and did) get a major ass-whippin when trying to fight fairly.
When I fought naturally, however, (or “like a girl” with associated clawing and scratching and gouging, pulling hair out, poking eyes . . .) I usually fared pretty well. I was naturally fighting vioently and for survival. To this day, as an adult, I walk in the confidence of doing what comes naturally should an attempt be made on the life of me, or mine.
Thanks mom for my school of hard knocks. Violence works.
Enjoyed your comments, Dave.
Well put, but honestly, I can’t believe that we even have to bring up the issue.
As martial artists of one stripe or another, we all should have made that decision within the first week of training. If you’re going to learn to protect yourself, you’d damn well better decide straight away that you’ll do whatever it takes to come out alive. To do otherwise is the height of self delusion and sets you up for a very dangerous wake-up call.
By the way, I’m not TFT trained, ( JKD descendant of James Lee’s Oakland school) but I really appreciate Tim’s take on the definition(s) of violence and the appropriate responses to the 3 different types. Very clearly thought out and usable. That way of thinking should be part of every martial artist’s training. Keep up the good work!
Fred I like your no nonsense start, but from the comments you see many different opinions presented. What we want to learn is how to best express this idea in a way that is useful and actionable.
Adam,
Is the idea that you refer to the concept of meeting unavoidable violence with whatever level of violence is necessary to defeat it (and thereby saving your own life and/or the lives of others)? If so, then I stand by my original comments. You MUST come to grips with that the moment you begin training. If you can’t stomach the thought of the possibility of having to take it all the way (killing your assailant) then you must resolve to be a pacifist and refuse to participate in violence at all.
Any physical confrontation can escalate to lethal levels in the blink of an eye. As the saying goes, “In for an inch, in for a mile.” And once you’re in, the choice is no longer necessarily yours.
Respectfully yours,
Fred
Absolutely agree
Thanks, Fred!
Interesting comments above…my personal philosophy regarding this topic is “Better to possess the skill and never need it, than to need it and not have it.” As a former victim of violence, I’ve learned that violence is inevitable. From bullying, to gang-banging to random acts of viciousness, you are bound to get caught in the middle somewhere. And needless to say, you’d better be ready. The only reason I survived is that the Big Man upstairs was looking out for me…and I prepared myself for war.
I have a question. How does a guy who’s been bullied throughout school, got beat up in a few fights and so gets panic attacks at the first sign of a violent situation/fight start to overcome that?
Deep,
My answer to your question is illustrated by “Pavlov”. If you can train a dog to salivate at the sound of a bell, you can train virtually anyone to respond to a violent situation/fight in a desired manner. That sure sounded pretty snotty, but the simple answer is train, train, train and when you train, train the way you are going to respond as closely as you can without causing serious bodily injury to your training partner(s) or your self.
I don’t think therapy is the answer at this point unless there are specific symptoms beyond the panic attack that you have not mentioned. I have many more comments on this subject because I hate bully’s who prey on people just because they may not be arrogant and obnoxious, but I don’t think it is appreciated when you go into a very long diatribe.
Thanks, Dave
I agree with this article ive been violent all my life because people are always fucking with me and im tired of it
Deep,
In my opinion, (which is just that, and is not backed by any psychiatric training), I think that a person who has truly been traumatized by violence needs to work with a therapist who specializes in treating that particular issue. After that is underway, and if the therapist feels that the person is far enough along to handle it, they could look into martial art/fight training of some sort. They’d need to find someone who is sympathetic to their situation, who’ll work patiently and carefully to help them work through the fear and instill confidence.
Above all, I would advise that person that they can overcome their fear. My wife is a therapist, and I can tell you that it is amazing what a human being can overcome with just a little help, a little guidance.
I’d be happy to discuss this further if you like.
I’m at fburtt@gmail.com
Respectfully yours,
Fred
Fred that was a very helpful response.
Deep I recommend a psychologist to assist, not a Rex Kwan Do McDojo instructor.
Adam,
I hope that it is actually helpful
My wife is a good influence on me
Fred
Hello Gents,
Thankfully, when I was around five or six years old I had my first encounter with two bullies, both bigger than me. I didn’t know what I was doing, but I splatted them in their faces with my fists and was fortunate that made them stop and rund away to either their mom across the street. They cried and pointed to me. I was confused at the attack, but happy; prior, they had beat up on my even younger friend and stopped when he got a sliver from grabbing the wood trailer we were playing in.
Anyway, from that time on, I instinctively knew that there are stupid guys out there who will try to intimidate you, and like Tim Larkin says, violence is the only answer in some cases. Since that first ‘fight’ my mental attitude to bullies has remained; no mater theirsize or numbers, they are targets if they choose to ‘target’ me or any other innocent person.
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